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Welcome to the Glam Life Podcast. I'm Victoria Racca. You might know me as Victoria Glam if you follow me over on Instagram, which you totally should.
And today I have a very important, very special guest here with me today. I have the international leader of permanent makeup. I have a global superstar and any stage she walks out onto, an absolute product maven.
You do not know the woman, but you absolutely know the pigments. It's Monica Ivani. Hi, Monica.
Thank you so much, Victoria. Thank you, thank you so much. And it's lovely to meet you.
Thank you so much for inviting me. I'm delighted to be here. It's so nice to meet you.
Now that's not an Irish accent. Where are you originally from? Cause you live in Ireland, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I live in Ireland almost 25 years now.
So, but I'm originally from Hungary. Oh, really? That's so interesting. I didn't know that before this call.
That's so interesting. I always assumed that you had a really thick Irish accent. No, no, no, no.
My God, Ivani is not an Irish name at all. I thought it was a married name. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
I didn't take my husband's name. His name is unpronounceable. So, no.
Well, how did you wind up in Ireland then? Well, it's very, it's like you guys moving from one state to another. So for us, it's very easy to move from one country to another within Europe. It's like, you know, it's that similar idea.
So you can just, you know, go and move. So I lived in Germany, I lived in Holland, I lived in Spain before as well. And then I came to Ireland and then I was stuck.
I love Ireland because of the people. Now, the weather here is shockingly bad. I'm sure you would have heard.
It's just rains all the time, but the people are just wonderful. So yeah, I'm just stuck because of the people, because of my friends and because of the people that is around me, it's just wonderful, you know? Yeah, so 25 years you've been there. Did you start your permanent makeup career in Ireland? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, I did, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I started permanent makeup 13 years ago and I went over to Germany to learn. And at that time, nobody really was doing permanent makeup.
It was the really old fashioned, old school, you know, you know, the block brows and the really heavy kind of permanent makeup. So yeah, so when I started, nobody was doing the now, you know, permanent makeup that we do now that are really natural and soft and so light-handed. So when I started, everybody thought I was absolutely completely mad, completely crazy because they said, what are you gonna, like, it's never gonna be popular here.
You know, it's never gonna be, nobody's gonna get an eyebrow tattoo. And look at it now, look at the industry now worldwide. It's amazing now, how popular it is now, you know? Yeah, no, it's crazy how popular it is.
And it's even crazier how popular you are. And you've managed to do that without really being out there giving interviews, hosting things, you know, you're not like, your face isn't everywhere. So how did you wind up in this partnership with L.I. as a signature series? First of all, why L.I.? Well, I tell you what, why L.I., right? So- Ready for PMU coaching without the $10,000 price tag? Enter VIPMU Group Coaching, check it out, right here.
Ready for PMU- When I did my original course in Germany, I was obviously using a German pigment. And my very first masterclass after that course was with Mary Richardson. Yes, love her.
In America, and she used L.I. And she gave us, I think, testers, or I can't remember how or what, but anyway, she introduced me and that group to L.I. And that group, that was her first masterclass as well. And this was in Ireland. So this was 12 years ago.
And Daria Chupriz was there, and Debbie, there was a lot of big names that are big in the industry now in that group. But anyway, she introduced us to L.I. pigments. And so I started using L.I., and I loved it.
I absolutely loved L.I. And then I made friends, really good friends with Will Anthony. Yes, love, I love Will. I'm looking at a picture of him on my wall.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I love Will. Yeah, absolutely love, adore Will. He's a big teddy bear, you know? Anyway, I took his class a few years later, and we just became really good friends.
And then he introduced me to Taryn Darling, and then Taryn asked me if I would like a collab with L.I. And I said, okay, yeah, let's try it. And there you go. Taryn Darling is the nicest person I've met in the entire industry.
And she is also L.I. pigments drug pusher. She is. She gets people addicted, and then she's like, have some, have some.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. She convinced me to start my podcast. Oh, wow, no way.
She demanded it, actually. I was on her podcast, and she said, well, I want to come on yours. And I said, I don't have guests on my podcast.
And she said, I'll be the first one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, very good. Oh, yeah, no, she's absolutely brilliant.
She's just a fantastic person. So yeah, so that's how it began with L.I. And yeah, and I'm absolutely delighted. I never look back.
I think L.I., the company itself is a fantastic company. It's an incredible company that I'm very proud to be a part of and to be in business with, because L.I. is just the owner, darling, and just everybody at L.I. over the years that I had to obviously work with, the chemists and the staff there and whatever. And yeah, I just, I have to say, hands down, very, very good, very nice company, very ethical, just everything, you know.
Very professional. That's another question that I had for you is when, okay, so Taryn approached you and said, you should have one of these signature series. How involved is that? I think a lot of people think that different brands, not just L.I., but any brand who has an artist series is kind of doing like white labeling like TikTok celebrities do with skincare, you know, where they say, hey, you have a big following.
I want to capitalize on it. Let me slap your name on this product. What does that actually look like? Yeah, and it is like that for most permanent makeup pigments because I'm launching, this is another thing, but I'm launching more pigments.
Obviously, a lot of people have asked me. The Glam Life Podcast is brought to you by browsister.com. Use code GLAMLIFE20 for 20% off your next order. Over the years to have more pigments, have different colors, have different sets, whatever, and that is happening.
So because of that, I had to, not that I had to, I didn't have to. I could have gone with L.I., but I wanted to kind of look around, around the world for other manufacturers and just other products. I wanted to have a better understanding of how this is really working because obviously, back in the day, when they asked me to do the collab with L.I., I said, absolutely, I love L.I. pigments.
I've been using them for many years, but I had no other experience with really any other pigment as such or a manufacturer as such. So I wanted to kind of look around. So I did look around, and so you are absolutely correct.
That is how it is with most manufacturers that if a person, a permanent makeup artist or a celeb or somebody has their own pigment line, it's usually, they just private label it. So they just change the label or the bottle on it, but the colors itself is ready. It's, you don't mix it, you don't do it, but not with L.I., and this is why I absolutely love working with L.I. because I was able to create completely my own shades.
I love that. How did you decide on just four shades? That's a tall order to encompass everybody that I might wanna work with, and everybody who says, oh, what inorganic should I use? Everyone says, Monica, Monica, Monica, Monica. So obviously, they are able to use it for every client they want to.
How did you create that balance with just four colors? Well, because that's exactly, again, this was, so I got into permanent makeup before most people did, and that's how I made my name. And my pigments got so popular, I suppose, all around the world because I made them so small. So only four colors, and out of the, yeah, there you go.
And out of the four colors, there's only really three of the three darker ones are the most popular ones. That's really enough for everything. You don't need any other colors, bar, obviously, of course, melanin-rich skin.
So if you're working on, yes, or if you're working on salt and pepper, older ladies that have kind of very white hair and you want a very taupe brown, then obviously you will need a different color, which I'm working on now. But otherwise, for the usual, from 18 years of age to, say, to whatever, it doesn't matter what age, but as long as they don't have white hair, you can just use those three or four colors. And the reason why I came out with this is because I used L.I. pigments before, and then obviously I used that German brand before, but they had millions of colors in them, millions, so many colors.
It was so complicated. Now, I knew it well, but it took me probably about a year or two to get to know the pigment line, to say, to get to know L.I. pigments because there's so many pigment colors, and you had to, I don't know if you remember or how long are you in the business, but you had to then mix colors together to get a shade. So I thought it was, obviously I was teaching as well at that stage, and obviously when I tried to explain to my students that, okay, so you have to mix with this, with this, and then to get that shade, and then, you know, it was just way too complicated and people didn't understand.
And they were like, why don't you just, why isn't there just a bubble that you just go straight out, why? So that's it, that's how, that's why I came out with it. And yeah, and that's why I think it's so popular because it's not overcomplicated, it's three or four colors, you know, and that's it, and it's pretty much enough. And that's so nice to take the guesswork out of it because there's nothing more intimidating than being a student, it's your first time, you're trying to absorb all this information while you're sitting here, and a lot is coming at you, and now you're told, well, you have to put one part this, two parts that, it depends on the skin type.
So when you're looking at the skin colors and you're looking at the hair, then you're gonna put this many drops of this and this many, it sounds like guesswork, and it almost sounds like, how would I ever learn how to do it? So when I first started teaching, Monica Avani is what I would put in my kids. It's so easy, it's so easy, and they're in the cute small box, they fit in my training kits, it's so nice. So you said now you're working on something new, is that, did you let that slip, or is that something that we're openly talking about? Well, this is the first time really I'm announcing it on your show, there you go, but well, it's not news news in a way that obviously, I have been talking about this, that I will be coming out with new pigments.
So we have been working on this for about two years already, but obviously it takes a long time to launch a product if you want the product really well made, and obviously you need to test them and you need to make sure that it is the product that you actually want to create. So yeah, so I think a lot of people know that I will be coming out with new pigments, but this is the first time that I'm actually announcing it, that it will be coming out very, very soon. We're at the packaging stages now, this is the last bit of the testing as well.
So yeah, so it should be coming probably, hopefully maybe summer. That's so exciting, oh my God, summer. So this is for ladies with graying hair, salt and pepper hair.
So there's gonna be lots of colors. The first colors are probably gonna be lip colors. Ooh, yeah.
So it's gonna be lip colors and these are also gonna be quite different from others. So I want, there's gonna be a set with titanium free set. So there's gonna be three colors in it, probably three colors in it that has no titanium at all.
Okay. And then it's gonna be another set where there is gonna be titanium in them, but it's gonna be very, very small amount of titanium. So that's what I want to focus on.
I know that titanium isn't bad, but it's just not, I just think that there is a gap in the market where I think that we need to come out with titanium free or very little titanium. And then there's gonna be eyeliner pigments and organic and an inorganic black as well. Nice.
Hey, is Will still manufacturing his eyeliners? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think he is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I know he discontinued black moss, but then I didn't hear an update on that. Oh, I didn't know this. Well, I don't know if it came to fruition.
He kind of said it when he, so he came here and he was training here. He was teaching eyeliner and he was holding a bottle of black moss and he was like, I mean, we're getting rid of this one. I'm not, whatever.
And then he just never said anything. Oh, no way. Oh my God.
But yeah, probably black moss is the color that I would use because I use his eyeliner pigments when I do eyeliner. So yeah, that's probably the black moss is my least favorite out of their set. Yeah, that's kind of what he was saying.
Because of course he was talking to a room full of students and he was saying, this is the one that students don't know what to do with. And so he was saying, he thought he might discontinue that one, but I didn't hear an update on if he did or if he didn't, or if it was just that color or what. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, so I just want to, just because people have been asking me as well, it's just gonna be two black colors, eyeliner colors, just because again, I just want, so I want to come out that, so the similar idea to what we did before. So it's a set where you have a couple of colors that you can include in your kits. So same idea.
So there's gonna be an eyeliner, a little set, probably the inorganic one for beginners and then the organic one for advanced student. And then the lip colors, obviously again, a very simple, just three colors again for beginners. And or advanced students.
And then yeah, so there's gonna be a salt and pepper color there for obviously the white haired ladies. And there's gonna be a red hair color, a brow color for red heads. We have a one already, the full brown in the original set is the one that I use, but people have been asking for something that is a bit warmer.
So that's what we're coming out because obviously all of my colors are quite cool in the original set. So this is gonna be a warm redhead color. And then there's gonna be a couple of darker brown colors that is for melanin rich skin, because that's another thing that people have been asking me.
They like my pigment, but obviously I understand that my pigments or the original set was made mainly for Caucasians or Fitzpatrick one, two, three, four, and maybe five, but definitely not six. So I do think that we need a couple of colors that is four or five and six as well. That's so exciting.
When you first sat down with Eli and said, yes, I'll do a signature series with you. Let's start this roadshow. Did you feel like you were gonna become the most popular artist series in pigment? No, my God.
Oh my God, absolutely not. Sure, no, no, no. You would not know that.
Nobody knows, nobody successful ever knows that you're gonna be successful. You just do your best and then you just try it, I suppose. And that's what happened.
So I'm delighted, I'm over the moon that it's so popular and people love it. And yeah, so absolutely. And this is what I want to do now full time.
And I know I have talked to Tina a couple of years ago, actually, it was a long time ago, but Tina Davis and she said that, you know, Monica, I can't really do clients or teach as well as develop products. So I had to give those up in order to just focus on the products. And that is now that I know that this is what I wanna do.
I don't wanna be doing clients anymore. I don't wanna be doing trainings anymore, really. So, well, I mean, not immediately, but in the next few years, I'm going to be cutting back on that.
And then I can just focus on developing products. And that is definitely what I wanna do now. That's amazing.
So you've kind of caught the bug, like that's it. I'm an entrepreneur, I'm not an artist. Well, you're an artist, but you know, in the entrepreneurial way, how exciting.
When did you first realize that your pigments were an elevated success? More successful than others? Well, pretty much immediately. You know, it kind of, it didn't, I was very lucky because it didn't take much time. Immediately it took off.
I think it was just the right time in the market that as I said, it was just only a few colors and nobody else did that before. Obviously there is options now. There is other colors or other brands that have a smaller little kits and, you know, but I suppose I was just the first and that's why.
Just people just kind of grabbed onto it. So immediately pretty much. And then I think then obviously years later, so it's almost five years on the market now.
And then obviously two years later, people realize that, well, hang on a second. This is actually, it fades really beautifully because it just fades away with no, you know, nothing there. And then now, obviously in this last year, we can see that inorganics are the thing now.
Nobody wants organics really anymore. Everybody wants the inorganic pigments. Everybody wants them to fade because they realize that they just prefer that, that, you know, for most clients, not always, but for most clients, especially for hair strokes, obviously.
So yeah, so now that's why. So I suppose I was just very lucky that when I got in and then how the industry has changed over these five years and, you know, it was just in the right time and the right moment, I suppose. I love that.
So you are currently, for anyone who's wondering why you're in your car, you are currently at your daughter's riding lessons, right? How many children do you have? One. Oh, just the one. So, go ahead.
Well, obviously you've been in America. It's very hard to find an hour, isn't it? I know you have children and if you have a family and you have a business to find an hour where you can just sit and you have nothing else to do, isn't it? Because obviously mornings are perfect for me when my daughter is in school or, you know, I can do that anytime, but obviously that would be middle of the night for you. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So we have been trying to get this date for so long now, so. Yeah, I thought maybe you guys, I was talking to my little girlfriend group chat, you know, like you guys, maybe Monica doesn't actually want to do the podcast. I do, no, I do, I do.
It's just- And then my department of health came and I told her too. I was like, just so you know, I had an international business call this morning that you kept me from. She was like, sorry.
Like she, you know, she didn't care. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So sorry about the car business.
Yeah, absolutely. No, I actually like it. I think that it showcases an entrepreneur as you are.
You get business done when you can, all day long. We're never off the clock. So how old is your daughter? She is nine now, yeah.
Does she kind of get pulled into business meetings and stuff? Like I always talk about this, poor Tina is probably sick of it, but Tina brings Brooke with her to everything. And I have never met a daughter who was more like, okay, this is how you market this. This is what you're gonna need.
I love your branding. And she's like eight or nine years old. No way, that's brilliant.
No, no, no. My daughter isn't like that at all. No, she couldn't care less about permanent makeup or business or whatever.
No, no, no. She's not into that, but obviously she understands that this is my job. This is what I do.
So if I have to lock myself into a room, you know, for an hour, she'll be fine. She's absolutely fine. But no, she's not like that.
But that's amazing for Tina. That's brilliant. Because obviously her daughter is gonna be like, just like her.
So that's fantastic. Oh, I met Brooke before I met Tina actually, because I was at, yeah, I was at Woolop in Miami. And I had seen Tina outside actually, getting out of a van, like taking all of her luggage and stuff.
And my husband and I were walking to a little gas station down the street to get some snacks. I really wanted some snacks. And I said, oh my God.
And he was like, oh, who is Tina Davies? But then later I had my booth all set up with all of my Brow Sisters stuff, which is my brand where I sell anesthetics. And it's very pink. It's very, very pink.
It's like pink posters, pink banners, pink tablecloth, pink, pink, pink. So Brooke came over and she's telling me, I love your branding. I love it.
And she said, can I have a sample? And I said, yeah, sure, no, wait. I don't think I should give a minor anesthetic. And she said, oh yeah, you're probably right.
That's probably for the best. Can I have a sample for my mom? And I said, that is so much worse. I am not giving Tina Davies a sample she didn't ask for.
And then Tina came over and said, hi, what are you guys doing? You know, and she was so nice. And she came on the podcast actually. And we had a pre-meeting call because Tina is very like, by the book, I wanna know exactly how this works.
What are the logistics? And she gave me so much advice and so many tips on growing a brand and building a business. And I just, as helpful as she was and as nice as she is, I am so stuck on Brooke. I want my kids to be raised in an environment where they understand hard work and work ethic, which if your daughter understands this is your job and that's why you go and lock yourself away sometimes, it's the same thing.
She is absolutely understanding it. So my oldest son is in kindergarten and he, they asked him, what do you wanna be when you grow up? And he said, a YouTuber. I think all kids do that now.
You know, if you ask my daughter, she would be the same. Yeah, absolutely. They all into that now.
They all love YouTube and they all love recording themselves doing whatever. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I have 19 subscribers.
Brilliant, brilliant. Yeah, no, don't freak out that it's gonna change. That's gonna probably change every six months.
He will want to be something else, you know, next. Oh yeah, he wanted to be a police officer forever. And now all of a sudden it's a YouTuber because he found out that mom has a YouTube.
Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's cool that you still like me enough to wanna be like me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.
Well, you know, I would love my daughter to become a permanent makeup artist because I do think that permanent makeup is one of the best professions out there. You know, I would love her to become, but I'm going to give her the complete option. You know, I don't wanna push her.
She knows what I do. If she has interest in it, she can always come to me. But if she doesn't, then that's fine as well.
She can just do her own thing and that's absolutely fine. Yeah, Mary Hall Scott, do you know her? Mary Scott Hall, Mary Hall Scott. She just announced that she is closing her store because she's retiring and she sells brow sister products, but that's a very recent development.
So we met at the UK PMU conference. So she came to me actually before she made the announcement and said, hey, I just wanted to prep you and let you know, even though we just kind of started this business partnership, I am retiring. She said, I didn't think it would be a big deal because I thought my daughter was gonna take over the store.
But she told her mom, I guess, around Christmas time that she thought she wanted to like pursue something else. She didn't wanna just take over the store. And I think that's great.
Allowing your kids to do whatever it is that they wanted to do, but still having the option to take over something that you built. That's amazing. But I can tell that she kind of felt like, you know, I'm letting you down because I'm closing my doors as soon as we inked a deal, basically.
Oh, that's so, yeah. Well, you have to get that- It's nice to see that though. Yeah, exactly.
Because it's your passion, it doesn't mean that it has to be your children's passions. You know what I mean? Or no, no, no, no, no. So whatever, I mean, my daughter now, obviously, I mean, in the middle of a field now, she's horse riding now and she's obsessed with horses.
Absolutely obsessed. And she wants to be a jockey. She wants to be a show jumper.
You know what I mean? So at the moment, obviously, that's only for, as I said, next year it will be something else. But, you know, if that's what she wants to do, who am I to say, no, you can't. You have to be a permanent makeup artist.
No, no, you can't do that. You know, just because I made a success of it doesn't mean that she would. You have a huge empire to hand down though.
So if she turns it down, just know, I will change my last name to Avani and I will inherit the estate. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. Absolutely.
I'll take it anytime. So silly. Well, Monica, thank you so much for finding some time for me today.
Where can people find Monica Avani and updates on the new product line? Okay, so probably Instagram is the best way. I'm not on Facebook really anymore. I don't think anybody is, bar messenger.
So I think Instagram is the best way, although I'm kind of pulling away from that as well. I'm going to have to hire people to do it now as well. I kind of held out as long as I could.
But yeah, probably Instagram. Just follow me on Instagram, monicaavani.mybrows. Mybrows is obviously my shop. And yeah, and if there's any announcements, I always do it there.
So yeah, absolutely. Or, you know, a lot of people message me. We get a lot of, lot of messages, of course.
And absolutely, anybody has any questions ever, just message me. It may take a day or two to get back. You know, we'll see.
But I always get back usually. Thank you so much, Monica. I appreciate it.
Thank you so much, Victoria. This was lovely and very short and very sweet. And it was an absolute delight.
So it was lovely meeting you. And I wish you all the best.
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